Transforming Maternal Care through Education, Advocacy, and Change - Episode 54
Welcome back to another insightful episode, and today we're diving deep into the critical issues surrounding black maternal morbidity, mortality, and patient advocacy. Joining us is Lorvena Dorvilus, a passionate nurse who shares her eye-opening experiences and initiatives aimed at empowering our birthing communities. We explore the real challenges faced in the healthcare system, especially by black and brown mothers, and discuss ways to bridge the educational gap to ensure safer, more informed birthing experiences. Tune in for a powerful conversation that sheds light on the vital link between personal finance and maternal health.
About our guest:
Lorvena Dorvilus is a dedicated labor and delivery nurse with a two-year background, originally from Haiti and raised in Florida. Her passion for caring for people and women's health was sparked during nursing school and further intensified by a mission trip to Liberia. Lorvena is keenly aware of the educational and autonomy gaps in maternal healthcare, especially in low-income communities. She founded "The Labor Lounge" and is pursuing Lamaze Childbirth Educator training. She advocates for informed childbirth choices and believes in the natural power of women's bodies to birth, aiming to empower women and families in their birthing experiences.
The Labor Lounge - https://the-labor-lounge.com
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TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Naseema McElroy: Happy 2024 more financially intentional people. I am so happy to be back. I've been on a little bit of a hiatus through the end of the year, but I'm back in full effect for the new year with new guests and new topics. And I really think. What we're going to talk about today is super important because I know this is a personal finance platform, but a lot of what I share, especially what I've shared recently has been to do with my own journey with having my last baby, but also things I've experienced as a labor and delivery nurse.
That have to do with black maternal morbidity and mortality and patient advocacy. And even though these things aren't directly personal finance related it, everything is tied to your finances. What resources you have access to, what medical care you have, who is there to advocate for you.
And just as a a black woman in America, and not everybody is black, I understand that. But as a black woman in America we have so many things stacked up against us. No matter what your income level is, I recently just shared an article on Instagram about how income does not matter when it comes to poor maternal outcomes, maternal and fetal outcomes.
to have Lorvena here to talk about Some programs that she's offering to empower our birthing communities and just a little bit of background about her because the more information we can get out there about this, hopefully we can change the disparities that are happening.
So I'm not going to stop talking about this. We're going to, we're going to keep this in the forefront so that we can see some changes. So Welcome Laverna. I'll give you a chance to introduce yourself and then we'll just hop right in. Okay.
[00:02:02] Lorvena Dorvilus: All right. Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you so much. Thank you for allowing me to be on your podcast on New Year's day. I know you could probably be doing a bunch of other things. But you're taking the time out. So I really appreciate it. So anyways, like she said, my name is Lorvena. I am Haitian. I grew up in a lively Haitian household and for anybody that is Haitian or is familiar with the Haitian community. When you're growing up, your parents offer you a couple of choices as far as career choices. And my parents offered me kind of like a four course meal was like, you can either be a lawyer or you can be a judge, you can be a doctor, or you can be a nurse. So me wanting to please my parents, I decided, okay, well I'm gonna hit it big, like I'm gonna, pursue. to be a doctor. So that was like my trajectory when I was younger. And at around 12 to 13 years old, I went to my home country in Haiti and I saw a lot of the devastation.
I saw the famish and the lack of resources. And I knew right then and there that I wanted to come back and help. My country and other countries like that. So I knew that I wanted to do it in the field of medicine so I decided okay i'm gonna pursue like becoming a doctor later on I realized that was not something that I wanted to do.
It doesn't really fit my lifestyle. So I decided to become a nurse. Fast forward to nursing school. My favorite rotation, you guessed it, was OB. I loved it there. We would do 12 hour rotations towards the end of nursing school. And I did not want to leave, y'all. I was there for 12 hours and I was like, I want to stay.
Like I want to be here. So I knew, okay, I think I'm heading in the right direction. So then fast forward to after nursing school, after I graduated, I went on a mission trip to Liberia and I did some volunteer work with women's services. I. Volunteered in the birthing clinic and also like the family medicine clinic. And I got to see just 1 birth. But it was incredible. You guys, there was no modern medicine involved. There was no all this extra technology that we have, which is great, but, they didn't have that. It was just, like raw birth, it was messy, but it was just so natural. And I absolutely loved it.
And I remember. Praying. I was like, God, let me have an opportunity to become an OB nurse. When I get back home and lo and behold, about 2 weeks after I graduated when I graduate after I came back to America I got an opportunity to apply to be an OB nurse. And. I was bright eyed and bushy tailed and I, I was so excited.
I was like, yes, I'm going to be an OB nurse. And when you're doing these deliveries, everything's going to be great. But, as of course, when you're in an area for so long, you start to see the cracks in the crevices and start to see the cracks in the foundation and some of the things that I was seeing. Was not just the nursing shortage that. Everyone everywhere is experiencing, but also just the lack of autonomy, a lot of respect, lack of consent and information being given to patients sometimes seeing blatant lies, be told to patients. Boldface lies is as we like to say and that shook me and because they did interfere with that person's birthing process, it dictated what kind of. Birth result that they were going to have and I have had several experiences that like I went home crying y'all and I was upset. Couldn't sleep. And that's when I knew. Okay. Clearly I'm seeing something that is not good and we're all seeing it and I have to do something to at least put myself at ease to let people know what it is that I'm seeing so that they can be able to like, make different decisions from what I saw.
Okay.
[00:05:56] Naseema McElroy: I love all of that. And I too Started off thinking I was going to be a doctor and then later on much later than you kind of took the nursing route so I understand that path there but also I love that you were able to Experience like that natural birth without all the medical interventions we have here in Liberia.
And what an excellent opportunity was to go to Liberia. That's amazing. But to come back here in America where we're supposed to be the most technologically advanced first world country and to see the things that you're seeing. And it's not you didn't come into like you. Labor and delivery are OB like bitter, like you came in so enthusiastic and just so passionate and it it just seemed like your world was rocked.
And I remember experiencing that, but it was not until later that I saw it because, serving different communities, different doctors, different demographics, all that kind of stuff. But, it's just one of those things that when you see it. It hits you, especially telling you talking about life, talking about disrespect.
You're talking about all of those things, but I want to take it back. Like, when did you start practicing as an OB nurse?
[00:07:15] Lorvena Dorvilus: So I started practicing two years
ago, so I am two years into the game.
[00:07:22] Naseema McElroy: Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. So 2 years is a relatively short amount of time, but the things that you've seen in that amount of time, it seems have been really impactful. In the way that you are showing up in your patient care and what you want to do to be able to educate others. Because at the end of the year, I always do a recap of, my most popular posts and always in the top three is the story that I tell about.
My experience with advocating for black women in labor and being fired and inevitably, inevitably there's always somebody that comes in there and is just well, what do you mean? Like, how are people being treated unfairly? And usually I'm just like, I just pin the comment because I'm like, tired of answering those questions because I have done it over and over and I'll share the information.
But how would you answer that question? In your experience, what were you seeing that people little experiences that patients were having that were different?
[00:08:32] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah. Some of the things that I was seeing was you can definitely tell the gap in certain communities and to be specific, the black community and the Hispanic community is the main community that we serve where I work and in the places that I've worked. And I can see that because of the lack of education, that tends to be the case in these communities. It's they're not aware of. Not just their bodily anatomy, but they're also not aware of the rights that they have. They're not aware of the medical interventions that is taking place, the different stages of labor all these things. And I think that just leaves too much room for healthcare providers to do whatever it is that they please whether they have good intentions or not. And I don't think that this is the time for somebody to just be so vulnerable to other people, if that makes sense.
Because while I would love to say that as your healthcare providers and, doctors And, nurses, we have the best intentions, like you said, there are implicit biases that are in place.
Sometimes there are, the racism that's in place that we are not aware of ourselves, or they might not be aware of, even the provider themselves may not be aware of. So those are a lot of the things that I noticed.
Yeah.
[00:09:49] Naseema McElroy: I want to just clarify, because even if someone isn't as educated as in general as the educational background, still, when it comes to bringing a child in this world, most people, no matter what their education level is, if they have doctorate degrees, and most of the people I work in Silicon Valley, so a lot of them are like rocket scientists, super engineers.
But they aren't educated about the birthing process. But the beautiful thing about, creating a baby is like there's typically a nine to 10 month gestation period where you can get this education. And, the onus is really on medical providers to provide that education. And, oftentimes it's very lacking.
People are not knowledgeable about the changes their body goes to, like you said, their anatomy. I can't tell you how many times people think that you pee out of the same hole the baby comes out of like the fluctuations and what your organs do. So why people have preeclampsia or high blood pressure or diabetes, how that happens, like those things, so I don't want people to think that it's a class issue, or it's something that, oh, it's because this person doesn't have a certain level of education, those things across the board, that
education is something that needs to happen for every demographic, and it's strongly lacking.
But what ends up happening is, is that oftentimes, because somebody does not know how to ask for that information. They are intentionally not taught those things, or they look at the relationship between the provider patient relationship as one of subservient, right? I have to listen to what this person says, because they know best not knowing their rights and how to advocate for themselves is something doesn't feel right, because at the end of the day, no matter what level of education you have, your body And you know what's going on with you.
And if you're saying something is going on and you're not feeling heard, you've asked questions that aren't being answered, you reported problems that aren't being addressed, there are issues. And like I said, that does not have anything to do with class, gender, education, income, all those things. But on the large in America, by and by black and brown babies are often, experiencing poor outcomes because of so many variables that happened in this process of not having the right education, not having the right access to services, not being able to have a voice, not knowing how to speak up, and just people blatantly doing things to them. that they think that, nobody's gonna report.
Nobody's gonna know, which leads to the 2 to 3 times higher death and injury rate for black and brown mom and baby.
[00:13:10] Lorvena Dorvilus: And ideally you would think that you could get this kind of education and information in your doctor's office. But I read a statistic somewhere that I think that a lot of OBs and doctors in general, they spend about less than 10 minutes in each doctor's visit. There's no way you can get all that information. So it's like you have to take it upon yourself you and your support system to educate yourself during that time. Of being pregnant or even beforehand.
Yeah.
[00:13:37] Naseema McElroy: Right. And it's so important to know what kind of access to information that you have and not solely, like you said, not solely rely on your doctors, your MPs, your medical providers to be the resource for you, you have to understand, that there's a lot of information out there. And when it comes to having a baby, there's no there's so much stuff.
It could be overwhelming, but you have to understand the credible sources and you have to understand the things that are relevant to you and be able to parse that out. So that's like a part that a lot of people I feel like. Missing.
So I know you created the solution
to
address it. Can you talk about like how you went from that point of something has to happen to trying to solve the problem?
Silence.
[00:14:35] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah I had, I've had several situations where, I've had a patient and things just went completely Outside of what they were expecting and what I was even expecting. And so I'll talk about 2 instances that like, I will probably never forget until the day I die. So 1 instance, for example, I had a patient, she's a 2nd time mom, she came in to be induced. She was 40 weeks pregnant and the reason that she thought she was getting induced was different from what the reason the provider told us. And she didn't realize that until she was already admitted in the hospital bed, already gave her the medication and we're giving a bedside report. That was like red flag for her right there. And. This provider, I don't know what the reason was, but he was particularly impatient for this labor process. And as it can take a very long time. So. After within 6 hours of her labor of trying to induce her, she's not making any progress whatsoever. She came in 1 centimeter was still 1 centimeter, 6 hours into it after the medication.
So he starts
to tell
me,
um.
[00:15:42] Naseema McElroy: for just for point of reference, an induction, a labor induction can take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. That is not abnormal for the 1st, 6 hours of cervix not being changed because it is a process. Go ahead. I'm
[00:15:58] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah, no, it's okay. So he started to mention to me, Hey, we're probably going to need to do a C section, cause she's not making progress, which to me, I was like, it's been six hours or what? It's okay. We're going to be okay. So anyways 10 hours into the induction process he comes into the room.
with the patient and I'm there present. And there, we have these papers that show the baby's heart rate, the mother's heart rate and the contraction patterns. And he pulls up this paper to this patient and it's yeah, see look at your baby, your baby's in distress. We should probably have a C section soon because you're not making any progress anyways. Y'all, I was so shook. I was so flabbergasted. I like my heart was beating so fast. My mouth was dry. I was like, I can't believe he just lied to her, blatantly lie. Because 1st of all, if your baby's in distress, I'm not just standing here, like twiddling my thumb looking at you. I am doing
something so that, red flag there.
He walked out the room, give her some time, I suggested, can we have some time to think about this? And. They were already a little bit suspicious of the doctor. And they asked me, well, what do you think? And of course, because of where I stand as the nurse I can't tell you what to do. And I also can't throw the doctor under the bus. So the best that I could do is reassure that. Patient that their baby looked fine. They were not in distress. And if you're an L and D nurse and you're listening, it was a category 1 strip from the time she walked into the time. This man said she should have a C section. And that was 1 of the instances where I was like, wow, I can't believe that this is something that's actually happening that we're just lying to patients
to get
a result.
[00:17:41] Naseema McElroy: I, have seen that. And the thing is, is that I feel like I'm a patient advocate and I know you said you didn't want to throw the doctor under the bus, but let me tell you something. He threw you under the bus, because basically, What he did was basically say, Oh, your baby's in distress and there hasn't been doing anything.
So we're about to do something. So no, like what I typically do in those situations, when there is a disagreement with the doctor, I will say I understand you might think that there's a problem, but I haven't seen any problems, but I'm happy to discuss it with you outside of the room. And I'll tell the patient I'll be back. We can all talk about this together, but maybe me and the doctor just need to debrief so we can go over the tracing.
And so I can see what they're seeing, and then we can come to an agreement on, next steps and we can all talk. But I think we need to get more on the same page because I'm seeing something a little bit different.
[00:18:35] Lorvena Dorvilus: That's really
good.
[00:18:37] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. And just, from nursing perspective, and I know different states are different.
Like in California, we have autonomy and we run our, run the units. Like the doctor can't even come into the
[00:18:48] Lorvena Dorvilus: I have heard
about
the California
[00:18:51] Naseema McElroy: So it's a, it's a, it's a little bit different. And I've only been a nurse in California and Nevada. So I don't have, but I ride for my patients.
I don't play those kinds of games. Me and the doctor will go toe to toe. Like I don't play those kind of games. And Not everybody has a nurse to advocate for themselves and so yeah, I love this example because this is the example of how would, first of all, Why would the doctor show the patient in the strip like they can't read a tracing?
So that was like a way to undermine them, right? Because how would they
know? Yeah, it's okay. How would they know? And then you're sitting up here the baby is not in distress right now. Like, why are you lying? But this kind of stuff happens.
So, you know. Just this is a perfect example of, yes, how does this happen?
And typically it happens to people that doctors think are not educated, that they can just do whatever they want to do, especially if they're used to working in communities where. They feel like I, they have like complexes, right? And sometimes I call God complexes or whatever you want to call it.
Whatever I say goes, and you're not going to question me because I'm a doctor, but I'm eager to hear the 2nd example
can
be free. Some more. Yeah.
[00:20:10] Lorvena Dorvilus: so the second example was this OB doctor who, his typical practice, we all know is he likes to break water break the amniotic sac early in labor. And there, there's research that says that it's totally fine. There's other research that says that doesn't support that. But you know, I like to give my patient. Both sides of it. It's here's the pros and cons. This is what can happen if we do it early on. This is what can happen if we wait. And, you can make your decision from there. I feel like that's the best choices when, that all
that information, you're able to make that decision. That's the information I gave to this particular patient. And an interesting fact they told me earlier on when I got this patient was that the last three generations of women had not been able to have a vaginal delivery. They had all had C sections and, they was. And it's already, thinking that she was probably going to end up having a C section, probably wouldn't be able to have a vaginal delivery. And I'm like, Oh, it's, it's early on in the shift. Your baby looks great. You look great. Let's not think about that. Lord, we're going for vaginal delivery. So we start her induction with a medication called Cervidil. And it's basically, I like to describe it as like a shoestring.
We put it close to your cervix
and it's supposed
[00:21:22] Naseema McElroy: Oh, I say it's like a flat tampon
[00:21:24] Lorvena Dorvilus: flat, oh
[00:21:25] Naseema McElroy: a long string. Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah, Yeah.
[00:21:29] Lorvena Dorvilus: yeah, like a shoestring or a flat tampon. And we put it close to your cervix and the purpose is for it to soften and ripen your cervix. And hopefully open it up a little bit more. Well, like I said, this medication is supposed to be in for 12 hours. It was in for this patient for 2 hours. And for some reason, the doctor Came in checked her cervix, pulled out the medication, not allowing it to do its full purpose and then broke the water. When she was still one centimeters and still had barely dilated and from there, everything went downhill.
The baby did not tolerate it. She started bleeding, started passing clots, and the baby was in distress after about two, three hours, and we ended up having an urgent C section.
[00:22:15] Naseema McElroy: You said he broke her at one centimeter.
[00:22:19] Lorvena Dorvilus: One centimeter. And this is like common practice for him.
[00:22:24] Naseema McElroy: One centimeter. Okay. So
[00:22:27] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah.
[00:22:27] Naseema McElroy: it's a big issue with breaking somebody's water that early, especially if they've never had a baby or just in general, because You're risking the umbilical cord coming through, which is a medical emergency, plus the chance of infection goes up substantially when you break the sterile you're breaking the barrier, the sterile barrier to keep this baby from getting an infection.
So those are, like,
big things. For somebody to have that as common practice, when they, that is not a standard, one of our national standards. Is preposterous and that goes, that's another example of somebody doing whatever they want to do.
[00:23:08] Lorvena Dorvilus: Mm hmm.
[00:23:09] Naseema McElroy: Not evidence based, not even, it's not even supposed to be.
Clinical practice, but doing whatever they want to do just because they think they can. And that is very, very dangerous.
[00:23:21] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Naseema McElroy: Yeah. So you said she ended up having to have an emergency
[00:23:25] Lorvena Dorvilus: She did. Yeah, because the baby wasn't tolerating it and she was bleeding. And I was very sad for her because, they already had the idea that this is just like a curse in their family per se. And it just, it didn't have to be that way. And it was very upsetting and it just gets really frustrating when you do your best to try to advocate for your patients and you try to educate them as much as you can within the 12 hours that you have with them.
And nothing changes, and you still get the same outcome as if you did absolutely nothing. Yeah,
[00:23:57] Naseema McElroy: Yeah, that's horrible.
[00:24:01] Lorvena Dorvilus: I was so upset. And so those were the experiences and having several of them where I was like, I can't keep doing this. I have to I have to tell people what's going on. I have to tell patients what to expect, how to speak up for themselves how to spot manipulation and fear tactics and, things of that sort so that you can be able to be empowered and advocate for yourself. Yeah.
[00:24:26] Naseema McElroy: Yeah, it's so needed is so needed because. Overwhelmingly, what I hear is that people don't. Feel like they have a voice,
or the thing is, is that 1st of all. When you're having a baby, you're in one of the most vulnerable positions you're ever going to be in your life. And basically, you're sitting there trying to just survive, right?
But now, you also have to fight the person that you're trusting
[00:24:58] Lorvena Dorvilus: Mmhmm.
[00:24:59] Naseema McElroy: to keep you safe. You're on guard. Imagine the physical and emotional turmoil that is going on, in those situations. It's traumatizing.
People, and these are things that people never forget.
First of all,
people don't forget their birthing experiences, period.
Those are core memories for most
people. And Things that happen, it really creates a trauma bond, like a trauma a
[00:25:32] Lorvena Dorvilus: Like association?
[00:25:33] Naseema McElroy: for people. Yes, a trauma associated, that's what I'm saying,
I'm sorry. But it's, it's freaking crazy that you think that, okay, I'm going to hospital I always tell people Everything that I'm doing that I'm doing is to protect you and your baby, right?
It's counterintuitive for me to do anything that will hurt you and your baby, because that's how I provide for my patients. Right. But, and that's the expectation that most people should have. But this system is so jacked up, it's scary that we have to come in and fight for our lives while we're fighting for our lives.
Like it, it is like scary and the other thing a lot of people just say is well, that's why we should just have home birth. And I'm just like, yes, home birth can be safer for people that that's available to, or if you don't want to do like any kind of medication during your labor, you want to have that whole experience, not everybody wants that experience and not everybody is a candidate for home birth.
So in order to have a home birth, you have to be a very low risk person. So no kind of comorbidities, no kind of illnesses. Even if, you can plan to have a home birth and then the last week it changes because your blood pressures are elevated. So it has to be all these things that work in your favor for you to be able to safely deliver at
home. What's more important is whether you're having a home birth or you're having a birth in a hospital medical institution is to know how to advocate for yourself. The question is to ask have that education. Yeah, like what are, what do you think are like some common misconceptions or misunderstandings that people have, like when it comes to or those knowledge gaps that they have when it comes to having a baby.
Yes,
[00:27:34] Lorvena Dorvilus: So I think one of the ones that I mostly encounter is the duration of labor. I think a lot of people, you watch these movies and these shows and it's Ooh, labor pain, ooh, water breaks, ooh, baby out. No, it doesn't happen like that. No, ma'am. It takes. Time and it's a it can take up to 12 to 72 hours. Thanks. Sometimes even longer Sometimes it can be it can be slow
and it can be long and
it can be
[00:28:02] Naseema McElroy: labor phase. That's from
active
[00:28:05] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah, when you're in that latent
[00:28:07] Naseema McElroy: labor is like you're already 4 centimeters. Yes. Huh.
[00:28:11] Lorvena Dorvilus: exactly. I think that's what I see a lot and I think that leads to a lot of people. Having some, some some forms of anxiety and fear and just a lack of patience for themselves. And I feel like this is when you need to be kindest to yourself and most patient. With yourself as well as your support system. Because I feel like, you can be as patient as you want, but if your support system is up, okay, well, when are you going to have this baby? It's no, please you calm down and I will calm down as well.
And we're going to let. Let your body do what it needs to do. So that's a misconception that I've seen. Another 1 that I've seen is. Just the fear of vaginal tears and your vagina not returning back to the state that it was before. And I just want to say you don't have anything to fear.
The vagina is very, very elastic. It was made to do this. You will push your baby out and it will get back. To the size that it was before. And if you do tear, which is totally normal, a lot of people tear, especially with their first babies your doctor will repair you and they use these dissolvable sutures that you don't, you don't have to get it removed once they put it in place. So there's that and I think another thing that I've seen is a lot of fear and anxiety as far as the pain. Of labor and, we all know that it hurts. I have never experienced it
myself, so I can't, relate per se to how it feels, but I can tell it is, it's probably the most excruciating pain of your life, but there are things that you can do to be prepared for that. Or to be prepared as much as you can, and, trying to figure out ways that you'll, you'll cope during labor. Who's going to help you cope? That's very important, different tactics and different tools that you can use and deciding, if you want to get the epidural and when you want to get the epidural, or if you don't want to get that for the role.
Do you want IV medication? Those are things that I think people should consider when it
comes to
that
[00:30:14] Naseema McElroy: I just want to stop and talk about pain for a minute because I think this is so stigmatized for people like I think people are afraid to talk about pain relief because especially especially because there's stigma around like pain seeking medication seeking, but when it comes to labor in particular I think.
We're taught that if we ask for something for pain, like we're being weak and we're not like it's, it's this whole thing. Like people don't really have these conversations because, and some of it is cultural.
Some of it is just like a lack of education or just knowing, but having three children myself, I can tell you, it is the most pain you're ever going to experience in your life.
I tell people that people who. eXperience natural birth. Are like at the point at the breaking point of like death like you're that is that excruciating amount of pain It's like you basically go up to hot like heaven like you basically die High five jesus and come back down right after that baby is born because it is that painful.
There's nothing like it. And I like, like when people start asking for pain medication or just I'm going to this is the thing. I'm going to take it until I can't take it anymore. And I'm just like, check this out.
[00:31:37] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah.
[00:31:38] Naseema McElroy: When you go to the dentist, it's going to hurt, right? When they start drilling in your mouth, that's going to
hurt.
Do you tell the dentist? Just start drilling, then at the point where I feel like I can't take it, then numb me. No, you go in, but then this numbs your mouth, and it says, Let me know if you need some more numbing medication if you start to feel anything.
[00:31:59] Lorvena Dorvilus: Right.
[00:31:59] Naseema McElroy: Okay. So why is it okay for you to sit up there and suffer through the pain until you can't take it?
So that whole thing to me is crazy. If you know you're going to take something for a pain, you don't have to suffer.
[00:32:16] Lorvena Dorvilus: Mhm.
[00:32:17] Naseema McElroy: And listen, I'm not about that life. Contraction pains are hard when I get I'm not about to do a home delivery because I want my epidural. I walk in the door. I get my epidural and I'm able to enjoy my birthing experience and you know what I'm saying?
I'm not about to, I'm not about to play those games. But that's because I understand that process, but so many people are either scared to talk about it. Think that they have to wait. Or they just don't think about it enough so that they get to the point where they're in so much pain They don't even know what to do.
So there's no plan around it and I tell people and this is like this is for all the education around childbirth
like
There are so many things you have to prepare yourself for the actual delivery. I really feel like people spend more time on planning baby showers and gender reveals than they do on educating themselves on, how am I going to get this baby out of my body?
[00:33:15] Lorvena Dorvilus: Right.
Yeah.
[00:33:17] Naseema McElroy: Yeah,
so that's all right. That's my my two cents. I'm paying because that that really burns me up like And then and then it really burns me up when the man is be strong You can do it knowing that
if he has a headache, he's taking norcos, you know
[00:33:31] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah, you guys, if you know that you have a low pain tolerance and you have a family member there that's telling you to say no, no, no, they're not in that bed with you experiencing the pain that you are experiencing. So you have to make that decision for yourself and you should be making that decision well before you get into the room.
Yeah. and I think there's also, I've noticed like a division as far as like having a natural quote unquote birth without any pain medication and then having one with an epidural. And it's it seems like 1 side thinks that, it's better than the other side, but it's you don't get a gold medal either way either way. aS long as you have a healthy delivery and a healthy baby, that is all that matters. That is all that matters. Yeah.
[00:34:22] Naseema McElroy: One, and I just want to along that same line, one of the misconceptions that I see a lot, and I'm so glad I finally called and share about it on Instagram yesterday is that the misconception that C sections are easier, just because you can go in and I'm just like, you don't understand you're having a major abdominal surgery.
And then you got to take care of baby on top of that. Now, I've had both vaginal delivery and a C section and so I can speak personally, but I've been a labor and delivery nurse for 14 years now. So, like, listen, it is not easier. And I think a lot of times doctors tell it like that, because they can go in, they can schedule it, they can get it done.
But,
Number 1, it is not easier, but number 2, you should never feel like you're a failure if you have to have a C section. But I just don't want people to think about it lightly because that recovery is crazy. What they have to do to get the baby out is crazy. So that's a misconception that I see way too often.
[00:35:24] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that the whole notion of like feeling like a failure because you had to have a c section, that's just really sad to me because I wish that people didn't have that idea because that's such a huge burden
to put on yourself
as
[00:35:40] Naseema McElroy: hmm. Mm
[00:35:41] Lorvena Dorvilus: And nine times out of ten, If you're not deciding to have a scheduled C section, whatever caused you to need a C section was outside of your control.
There
was nothing that you did, no exercise that you did, no food that you ate, no activity that you did that could have led you to that point. So why put that kind of burden on yourself? In the moment, that should be the happiest moment of your life.
That's a lot. It's a lot.
[00:36:12] Naseema McElroy: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:36:15] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Naseema McElroy: So like now from the standpoint of knowing that we need more education, what are you seeking to do to get this education out there? So that we have more resources for our birthing moms.
[00:36:32] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah I started my company called the labor lounge and what it is, it's, it's basically, it's a childbirth education class that I have. And it's also a blog. So you can go on there and read some of the resources that I have. And the classes are very affordable. I'm aiming for it to be accessible for low income and middle income families so that you can not only learn about pregnancy, but also learn about labor also learn about postpartum and, just even mental health when it comes to having your baby, learning about lactation, how to care for your newborn. So that's what I am offering in these classes. I'll be having interactive activities. We will have role play scenarios for things that I see a lot and the labor and delivery field conversations that you may have that you're not anticipating and how to.
Spot red flags, and how to make a decision when you see these things. And. A lot of this will also be very beneficial for your support system as well. I think it's very important that your support system is on the same page so that they can support you in your, in your birth plan so that you can feel empowered and you can have an amazing birth, whether it goes as planned, or it doesn't, which it usually doesn't. But I want you to, have that experience and Walk away feeling like you were not only respected, but listened and involved in your birth, even if it did or didn't go according to how you wanted it to go. That's how I want you to walk away from that and I want you to have all that knowledge as well.
[00:38:17] Naseema McElroy: And are these classes all virtual, like how, what's the format of it?
[00:38:21] Lorvena Dorvilus: As of right now, the 1st, 2 classes that I'm offering, they are virtual. I will also be offering in person classes as well as well as private classes. If you go on my website the dot labor lounge dot com you will find the details on there, but the 1st, 2 classes will be virtual. Yeah.
[00:38:40] Naseema McElroy: you do any centering groups, meaning that you take people that are relatively due around the same time and walk them through the processes, or is it just open to anyone pregnant, postpartum, like, how, how does it work? Who are you?
Looking for
[00:38:56] Lorvena Dorvilus: so it's open to anyone. Ideally, it would be people who are pregnant women who are pregnant. And we'll be delivering and, the next. Six months, because the sooner you started the the better will be so that you can absorb all this information, do all the research that you need to do, do the homework that will be assigning homework so that you can be able to make some informed decision before you are delivering your baby.
It, if, but it will be for anyone, you can come if you've already delivered your baby. You 9 months pregnant, 6 months, 1 month. Four weeks. It's it's it's up to you.
Yeah, everybody's welcome.
[00:39:32] Naseema McElroy: and what about support people?
[00:39:35] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yes, I definitely encourage and would absolutely love to see support people come and be a part of that class and get that knowledge and information as well. It'll help so that we're all in the same page of what information we're learning and what decisions we're going to be making.
[00:39:53] Naseema McElroy: Okay. So can you share again, like how people can access the classes those sites and any other resources you have for people?
[00:40:03] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah, so my website is the. And it's the same thing on Instagram, the labor lounge underscore Houston, Texas. And it'll be a beige little icon with a pregnant lady with big hair. And yeah, so those are my resources and my blog is also on that same website as
well.
And
[00:40:28] Naseema McElroy: Okay. And I'll, I'll definitely, yeah, I'll definitely put the link in the show notes. So you can easily access them. But I know you're doing some classes this month, right? Yeah.
[00:40:39] Lorvena Dorvilus: I am. So let me pull up those dates, because I don't want to give the wrong information. So yeah, so this month, it's a little bit short notice, but I am doing a free class on January 6th and January 7th. And I'm also doing another free class on January 19th and January 20th. My goal is to just Get more people knowing that I have this resource out there available to them. So there's a possibility that I may be extending those free classes to February as well. So just stay tuned sign up for any notifications that you can get. Follow my Instagram page so you can get those kind of information. And my Facebook page as well.
[00:41:19] Naseema McElroy: I love this and I love having this conversation with you because, even though this is the personal finance. Podcasts. I think this topic is just so important. And even, even on my platform, even though my platform is the personal finance platform, this topic keeps on being brought to the forefront over and over again.
Anytime I share about black maternal health or any kind of maternal health. Maternal health issues, those things resonate with so many people just because there is such a gap in education in, in resources for so many people. And so I thought it was super important to have this conversation, and it was a great conversation.
90 percent of my audience is women, whether they're childbirth, I mean, whether they're childbearing, have had a child,
it's something in this that they can take. And apply it to their lives or share with someone who maybe having a baby or if they're a support person, some things that they can help out with.
And so I think this is an excellent conversation. It's always great to talk to another labor and delivery nurse
and bounce these experiences off of each other because man, this is so great. It's crazy. And I'm just talking to my friend who's a lactation consultant doula and all those kind of things last night.
And
we
were both saying this healthcare system needs to be imploded. There's so many things that need to change. But I feel like these conversations help facilitate. That change from a very grassroots level and the more people that are aware and are taking advantage of the resources, the more people have the tools to be able to have better birth outcome.
So I really, really appreciate having you
[00:43:04] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yes. Thank you for
[00:43:06] Naseema McElroy: really, really good. I'm so happy for what you're doing. I know
people. So yeah, just want to say thank you, girl.
[00:43:14] Lorvena Dorvilus: you. I'm so happy that I was here and this is a really good conversation. And like you said, I love talking to labor and delivery nurses and just bouncing stories because it's like the things that we experience is it's a lot y'all.
It
[00:43:27] Naseema McElroy: It's a lot. It's a lot.
[00:43:29] Lorvena Dorvilus: Yeah.
[00:43:30] Naseema McElroy: a lot. So you guys make sure you check her out. Make sure you go to these free trainings. If not, just share it with someone that you know could use the information. But yeah, this is really, really good. And again, I just hope it helps change the trajectory of our maternal fetal outcome.
So thank
you.
[00:43:49] Lorvena Dorvilus: would be a
blessing.
[00:43:51] Naseema McElroy: Right.
[00:43:52] Lorvena Dorvilus: you.
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